Pattern property Height in Export?

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KevinA
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Joined: 18 Dec 2015, 15:35

Pattern property Height in Export?

#1 Post by KevinA » 24 Dec 2019, 16:50

I edited a RES_0402 component and added Height with a value to that component and saved it.
I created a new 0201 pattern with Pattern Editor by making a duplicate of the CAP_0402 pattern and editing it. I placed that test_0201 pattern and RES_0402 component on a PCB then exported a pick & place list. When I setup Export one of the 'Fields' that was in the properties was Height+D and my added Height. In the exported list the test_0201 pattern Height+D had a value of Height (mm) = 0.37 and no value in my column Height, the 0402 had Height (mm) = .7 and in Height the 0.35 I had placed in the component.

Where did Height (mm) come from in the pattern? It is NOT in the Pattern Properties window...
How did it get a value assigned it?
What is the D for in the pick & place export list? Height of paste - how far into the paste I need the part placed?

In PCB Editor Help / Working File / Export / Pick and Place:
Height+D – component height + defined value
What is it trying to tell me and where do I enter the Height value?

Tomg
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Re: Pattern property Height in Export?

#2 Post by Tomg » 24 Dec 2019, 17:21

As far as I can tell, the Height and Width are the automatically-measured extremes of the pattern (could be wrong, of course)…
pp1.gif
And how about this one where the silk dot is included...
pp2.gif
Text on the silk layer planted outside the normal pattern border (e.g. "+") really messes up the final numbers.
It looks like the automatic measurement algorithm uses the distant text grab handle as a point of reference (approximate width dimension shown)...
pp3.gif
As for the purpose of the manually-entered constant "D", your guess is better than mine.
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Last edited by Tomg on 24 Dec 2019, 23:33, edited 3 times in total.
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KevinA
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Re: Pattern property Height in Export?

#3 Post by KevinA » 24 Dec 2019, 19:23

I'm in shock: Checked three SMD component vendors for how they define a pattern and they all use: L= length X W = width
NOBODY uses Height for Length but DipTrace!

A real part have three dimensions:
length-height.jpg
Why is it that I have to add a physical feature of a part to the list of component properties? The main purpose of DipTrace is to convert an idea into a working product, you must have the HEIGHT of each component before the component can be picked and placed! In general SMD patterns like res_0603 have the same height but cap_0603 does not, the height depends on capacitance so with component editor is were the Height of the component needs to be set after you know the capacitance.

Has no one used a DipTrace Pick and Place list to have a board made? If you have how did the P&P machine know the height of the components?

D = ? I have no clue, clueless :shock:

Alex, Please replace all Height references with Length and ADD Height to component properties. Besides pick and place issues how tape is feed to the machine depends on the Height of the part, the channel that holds the tape has to be deep enough for the parts to clear but not so deep that the nozzle shakes the tape due to lack of support under the part.
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Tomg
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Re: Pattern property Height in Export?

#4 Post by Tomg » 24 Dec 2019, 22:46

Perhaps version 4's new Pattern Editor will clear up some of this confusion. Let's hope so. Here's a sneak peek - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PejMVcZk5E
Tom

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KevinA
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Re: Pattern property Height in Export?

#5 Post by KevinA » 25 Dec 2019, 17:35

DEX has been doing that for ages instead of focusing on getting the product to product artwork that can be used to build boards with...
Speaking of which, how can we tweak Diptrace into adding the information needed to build a board? The REAL component Height is a must when it comes to board assembly... Found out I can step the Z axes at 0.001mm so I don't squeeze the paste off the pad. Component Height+ Paste Height + PCB height - X = Z height for placement. X depends on Package Footprint area. Tomg get a P&P machine, hours/days of head scratching

Tomg
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Re: Pattern property Height in Export?

#6 Post by Tomg » 26 Dec 2019, 10:34

Here's one manufacturer's explanation and recommended requirements for the centroid file - https://www.screamingcircuits.com/asset ... ntroid.pdf
So it looks like the only data that needs to be provided by the centroid (DipTrace pick-and-place) file is as shown in the example table below...
pp4.gif
What I'm guessing happens in a PCB assembly house is that a technician looks at the SMD component manufacturer names and part numbers in your BOM and then pulls the necessary component dimension data from an in-house database.
In other words it appears that the task of finding and entering component dimension data belongs to the PCB assembly house (in your case, you).
Tomg get a P&P machine, hours/days of head scratching
No thanks. I have too little hair left as it is.
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Last edited by Tomg on 11 Jan 2020, 15:30, edited 1 time in total.
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KevinA
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Re: Pattern property Height in Export?

#7 Post by KevinA » 26 Dec 2019, 20:37

I just ask about that at OpenPnP, several of the users have 'real' Pick and Place machines they run on a commercial basis. Why would we have software to layout a PCB that gives us 3D images of the PCB if someone else could change the height of components?
You don't need hair to scratch! Of course the dented in forehead from banging your head against the desktop is not much better then scratching..

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